Darren Hill (00:01):

Welcome back to Energy Talks, the podcast where we speak to the people powering the energy sector. I'm your host, Darren, and today I've been joined by Jess Lyon, Petrofac's, Decommissioning Projects Director. In this episode, we're going to be exploring decommissioning from strategic planning all the way through to its impact in the future of energy. Jess is going to be sharing her insights from inside the world of decom, the complexities she faces on a daily basis, as well as the lessons she's learned along the way with our team. So sit back, relax, grab a cup of coffee and enjoy our conversation. Jess, thank you so much for joining me on Energy Talks today.

Jess Lyons (00:37):

Thank you very much for having me.

Darren Hill (00:39):

Awesome. It's absolute pleasure having you here. So let's set the scene for our viewers and listeners. So can you tell me a bit about decommissioning and the role in the markets at the moment?

Jess Lyons (00:47):

Yeah, so decommissioning as a sector is large as well established, but it's also growing pretty significantly, but it's growing at different stages depending on where you are in the world and at different paces. So it's an exciting time in the industry. There's a lot happening and there's going to be a lot more happening in the not too distant future. I think with the kind of fluctuations in the overall energy sector and potential uncertainty that there is decommissioning ultimately it's inevitable it's going to be happening. It's an exciting time for us and Petrofac as a company with the projects that we have running at the moment and the opportunities that we have coming up soon as

Darren Hill (01:24):

Well. Awesome. And what you mentioned, it's at different phases in different parts of the world. So where are we seeing the most growth when it comes to decommissioning at the moment?

Jess Lyons (01:32):

So I guess it is where you're looking at mature basins. So you've got pretty mature basins obviously within the uk, within the us and then growing in the Asia Pacific region. So that's where we're seeing a lot of growth and quite drastically quick growth that's happening, but I think we're going to see that emerging in a lot of other areas as well in the not too distant future. We've got the energy transition as well, which is going to have an effect on things. As the sector shifts towards new energies, there's then going to be a reflection on the existing market and a growth in decommissioning as a result.

Darren Hill (02:09):

That's interesting. I think we'll come back to that note on the energy transition and where decom fits. We'll come back to that later in the podcast. Talking more about you now, you've really developed your expertise and honed your skills in the uk. Why is the UK market so important to decommission and globally?

Jess Lyons (02:26):

So the UK market is seen as mature and it is, so there's a lot of experience there. There's a lot of assets that are being operated either up to or well beyond their intended design life. So there's a lot of experience there and there's a lot of experience in early decommissioning and full-scale decommissioning. So taking that experience, there's the opportunity to then redeploy that elsewhere in the world and obviously we're in a position within Petrofac to really leverage that and we're fortunate to be in that position. The important thing that we need to remember as well is that the pace of growth in other parts of the world means that actually there's a lot of experience and knowledge that we need to bring back into the uk. So it really is at the moment and developing towards a very much a two-way street where we're taking back that experience and knowledge back into the UK and deploying that on our projects and opportunities that we have coming up here as well.

Darren Hill (03:20):

What was it attracted you to come into decommissioning?

Jess Lyons (03:23):

I think for me it's always variety. Literally no two day or week is the same and no two opportunities are the same. There's a lot of challenges that come in the decommissioning space, a lot of uncertainty and trying to manage and navigate around that is interesting ultimately. So that was definitely a draw and I think the variety across the different parts of the sector as well. You've got a touch point into a lot of different service lines, functions, disciplines, and that's obviously got an interest as well. And that's probably what did it for me. It's definitely interesting and keeps you on your toes.

Darren Hill (04:01):

We're working right across the globe now in a few projects which we can touch on as well in Australia, Gulf of Mexico. And you've talked about learning these lessons that and bring them back to uk. So what lessons have you learned so far that's really stood out to you and that you're applying to future projects or current projects that you've taken from other parts in the world?

Jess Lyons (04:19):

So I think we're, as Petrofac, we've got two major decommissioning contracts running at the moment in the US and in Australia. And those awards have been really significant for us as a company and the ability to really pull together a lot of our expertise across the decommissioning work breakdown structure together in delivery. The key things that have helped in getting those set up is real transparency and openness with our clients, working together to look at the uncertainties, the risks and the challenges and finding the best solution to move forward with them. So that kind of openness and communication and working together, the collaboration side of things has definitely been an important aspect and something that we are trying to bring back into everything that we're looking at opportunity wise within the UK now and as we move forward as well.

Darren Hill (05:12):

It's such a good point. Something we touched on with John Pearson, our previous podcast and is so that collaboration are just being brutally honest and upfront and it's not trying to sell a dream that's not real. It's about how can we work together. This is a situation. Is that really been the key driver of those relationships?

Jess Lyons (05:29):

I think so, yeah. And with decommissioning there is a kind of perception, there's no value in decommissioning and you can totally understand that challenge. The potential for value is in doing it as efficiently as possible and de-risking as far as possible as early as you can. And the only way that we can do that is by truly working together with our clients and looking at those uncertainties and trying to find the best solution for them. So yeah, a hundred percent agree.

Darren Hill (05:56):

So it about not even necessarily decommissioning it, but almost getting in touch and planning for that decommissioning phase as early as you can so that you can sort of manage those things that are likely to prop up or the known unknowns kind of thing.

Jess Lyons (06:11):

And I think that's where as Petrofac are positioned within the kind of operated assets market, especially within the uk, gives us that insight into mature late life asset management and the challenges that come with that and how important it's to address decommissioning early, as early as possible. And we've had many discussions with clients and within the supply chain on what is the definition of early, when do you start decommissioning? It's not necessarily at COP when you cease production, it's earlier than that and the earlier that you can start thinking about it and having those conversations openly and transparently, that's where the benefit is in trying to realise potential value or efficiencies in when you come to address the challenges, trying to understand things as early as possible so that you've got the time to plan for them.

Darren Hill (07:02):

Yeah, exactly. And I think that efficiency and that sort of lends itself into energy transition as well, the more efficient you're doing it, the less carbon emissions as well. So it's sort of all ties in together.

Jess Lyons (07:12):

Exactly, and it's something that we're very conscious of when we're looking at potential opportunities in the decommissioning space. We obviously want to minimise our environmental impact and to be honest, efficiency is where that comes down to in the most part for us, we can't get away from the fact that decommissioning assets means large vessels, rigs, we need to use them, but if we can work efficiently and we can find the safest and quickest way to do things, then ultimately we're going to put to have less people, less resources being used and therefore less of an impact on the environment. So it's a true benefit overall.

Darren Hill (07:53):

What I'm getting from chatting to you today especially is sort of the need to stay agile. So how do you yourself and the team, how do you stay agile to sort of deal with all these things that might come up during a project? And you mentioned a lot about planning there, so can you expand on that for me?

Jess Lyons (08:08):

Yeah, sure. So a part of it is planning and looking ahead and really trying for us to look at what potential challenges might come up. We're obviously concerned with looking at the opportunities that we have on the table in front of us, but then also looking at what might come up in the future. And I think making that investment as a part of the business and as a business itself to say that we're committed to decommissioning and we want to really try and find the best ways and the most efficient ways of doing things. Part of that as well is looking across the globe to the execution that we have large scale execution and taking lessons and learnings back from the cross. Learning that we have the opportunity for that is really truly great.

Darren Hill (08:55):

Why should people put their trust in Petrofac to deliver these projects?

Jess Lyons (08:59):

That experience is key and mentioned before there about the experience that the Petrofac has is not in just decommissioning, but it's in every aspect that builds up towards decommissioning. Decommissioning itself isn't any one thing, it's a lot of things brought together and as Petrofac, it's actually bringing together a lot of what is our core business. So across operations, well engineering, well execution and then facilities. So bringing together the core business from across the company. We're in the best position that we possibly can be to deliver for our clients and we've got skill sets, experience of those activities, but also of the assets. It never fails to amaze me when we have a new opportunity come in that as soon as you put the feelers out, you've got a handful of people who have been on the asset probably for years potentially installed it in the

Darren Hill (09:54):

First place. Exactly.

Jess Lyons (09:56):

And having that is obviously extremely valuable for us and putting that knowledge to best use for our clients

Darren Hill (10:02):

Like to be in a room to see whose hand goes up is oh, 10, 15 years ago I worked on that. I put that in. I think that's almost experience you can't buy, right? Is it that they've actually been there, they've done it, they know the asset like the back of their hands.

Jess Lyons (10:15):

Exactly that. And there's an enthusiasm and a bit of a motivation that comes through being able to see something full cycle. So it applies for those that have been around longer who have got that kind of exposure and then it applies to those who are maybe earlier in their careers who haven't got that kind of historical experience. But being able to see that and soak up that experience and knowledge and apply it with that next level of enthusiasm and passion for decommissioning as a part of the business is really nice to see in practice day to day.

Darren Hill (10:52):

You've touched on it there, but what would you say to somebody who was coming into the industry and then they're looking at decommissioning and they're like, well, that's kind of the end. What would I want to start my career or or towards the end of my career? Is it the end or is it a new beginning? How long have we got in this industry of decommissioning?

Jess Lyons (11:11):

Yeah, I think it's a really good point and there is definitely that perception of it's not pretty and it doesn't have that kind of prosperous future, but all you have to do is look out there to the fact that oil and gas as an industry is still there, it's still developing and everything that's going in needs to come out. So decommissioning is around and it's around for a long time. And when we speak about the transition as well, you've got a whole new part to the energy sector that's coming in and we're seeing increasing interest in it as well where it's not just oil and gas facilities that we're going to be looking at, but there's going to be a growing interest in looking at how we decommission new energies and those sorts of facilities as well. So there's an opportunity for folks to actually look at decommissioning and the future of it in the new energy space as well, which is positive.

Darren Hill (12:01):

Not everything fits perfectly into box. So how do you approach really complex projects? It requires something different than a standardised approach.

Jess Lyons (12:09):

So I think the important thing within decom is recognising that most projects have an element of uniqueness to them. No asset is the same. You can take two assets that were installed to generally the same design specification at the same sort of time, but they've gone through a whole different experience in their life and will look very different. So the integrity of the assets, modifications that have happened over its life, all of that has a significant impact on what it looks like when it comes time to decommission. So taking account of that, but also applying what is an overall standardised approach to how we execute or how we plan for decommissioning is important because that allows us to bring in our experience, knowledge, lessons learned, and essentially our kind of norms to how decommissioning is executed. So the main thing for us in the first instance is to try and get as best an understanding as we possibly can of the assets and what it looks like at that moment in time.

(13:07):

And that's not always easy. It relies on information documentation that may or may not be available. Sometimes we just have to get out there and take a look around and try and understand things as best we can, but that collaboration with the client to be enabled to look at that in detail and be able to really get into the depths of understanding what the status is of the asset before we try and jump into how we're going to tackle it. That's really important to get that understanding upfront. But from that point forward, we're then taking, like I was saying before, the experience across all of the different parts of the business, which spans across every type of asset and operation. And we're able to take that and bring it together to come up with what is a fit for purpose, but also a specific solution for that asset, which can ultimately look for the most efficient and cost effective, but safe way to decommission.

Darren Hill (14:07):

Yeah, I like that. It's nice framework. So you still have your room for creativity, but the framework allows you to keep that really high standard and consistency with your projects as well.

Jess Lyons (14:16):

Exactly. And that's really important to us as we move forward in making sure that we can demonstrate that for our clients.

Darren Hill (14:23):

So you mentioned before that we can't anticipate everything and each asset, I like that each asset's lived its own life and it's got battered and bruised and it's been put back together, fixed or improved, et cetera. What strategy can our clients adopt as they're going into later life to help mitigate these risks and allow for a smoother decommissioning journey?

Jess Lyons (14:41):

So thinking about it early, engaging internally, having those conversations and opening that up within client organisations and then when the time right, still as early as possible, starting to engage with the supply chain and the specialists that are out there to really understand what kind of solutions there might be to the specific problems for that asset.

Darren Hill (15:02):

What is it that's really driving you and is going to continue to drive you at VAC in the decommissioning world in the years to come?

Jess Lyons (15:09):

So I think for me it's the team of people that we have together got a lot of exciting opportunities and there's a lot of enthusiasm there from the kind of integrated teams that we pull together. We're in a unique opportunity with decom where we're reaching across the business to pull a lot of different people together and seeing that enthusiasm for people to really get stuck into some of the key challenges that there are when it comes to decommissioning, that's really exciting and it's infectious within the group. So I think having that real, really good, strong team and growing team looking at decommissioning is something that I really enjoy being a part of.

Darren Hill (15:47):

Amazing. That's such a nice note to leave it on. Thank you so much for your time today, Jess. I really appreciate talking to you.

Jess Lyons (15:52):

Thank you very much Darren.

Darren Hill (15:53):

Thank you so much for watching or listening to my conversation with Jess and hit subscribe to make sure you don't miss another episode.